Discussed briefly in chat.

Reasons for ability:
(1) many gems exist on the market that are unsuitable to be crimped in system items because they are too large
(2) many players with the gem cutting skill cannot cut gems small enough for other players to use

Solutions:

(1) allow gem cutters to target a specific gem size, as long as it is below their minimum
(For example, if a player can cut a gem from 24-28 points, they could exactly cut one 23 points or less).

(2) allow gems that are too big for a slot to be put in the slot anyway
but auto-majically trim the gem to fit since you aren't going to get the gem back.
Item being crimped into would be damaged by the amount of points trimmed so the gem fits.
1 point reduction equals 1 point damage. And can't auto-trim into unbreakable items.

(3) a new shop where the player pays an expert Gem Cutter to trim an existing gem down a set number of points
Requires a quest to open the shop. Perhaps having a gem is required to start the quest.
NPC would have to charge millions of gold to perform this service -- based on gem size.

(4) create a new skill called Gem Trimming
Probably would be a DT item to start a quest to earn the Gem Trimming skill.
Having the Gem Cutting skill would be required to start the quest.

There would be a minimum amount of 'waste', meaning at least that much in points has to be cut off.
Your skill could affect the minimum waste when trimming.
With 0% skill, the waste is 50%. At 100% skill, the minimum waste is 1 point.

There would be a chance of failure that shatters / destroys the gem.
The higher your skill the lower the change of failure.
With 0% skill, the failure chance is 55%. With 100% skill, the chance of failure is 5%.

Advantages of the Gem Skill solution:
(1) DT item means more donations (maybe)
(2) removes usesless gems from the market
(3) chance to shatter the gems means removal of gems from the world
(4) another skill for players to master

i like the idea but maybe you could do it another way by opening a shop like your card one where players can trade in the old gems.. like 4 already cut = 1 raw

this seems like a decent idea, i would buy the skill if its made a DT item

would it also be possible to make it so people can remove gems from equipment with a chance of keeping the gem?

Out, I think your idea would be too risky. I think it would make the gems a tad powerful.
For example, your item is a 1%. You take the gem out, trash the item, get the item fixed, and then put the gem back in. It would completely deplete the use and need for raw gems, except in the case where you need a stronger item. Either way, it's still powerful.

As for Kerrik's idea, I think the Gem Trimmer skill is a good idea. Making it a DT item would indeed bring in donations, and a new skill will be fun to master.
Of course, there is the question of that happens to all the scraps you trim off. Perhaps as you advance in the skill, you have a higher chance of collecting Gem Shards that can be exchanged for some sort of bonus. Or maybe they can even a new raw material, if it can be coded that you only get that raw material in an OI item blueprint if you have the skill.
Just an idea, I would like to hear others (if there could be another use for Gem Shards, or you don't like the idea at all. XD )

Outdated's idea would be a completely different skill: Gem Salvaging.
The player sacrifices the item to salvage the gems, with a chance to shatter the gems during extraction.
The item is destroyed whether the player shatters the gem or not. Even unbreakable items.

Items with damage are highly likely to shatter the gem during extraction.
Perhaps the damage to the item has put hairline fractures in the embedded gems that aren't apparent until you try to take the gem out.

Both the player's skill and the amount of damage on the item would affect the chance of shattering the gem on removal.

(100 - salvageSkill) * 4 / 5 - itemDamage + 5 = % chance to shatter (but max % chance to shatter => 95%)

If the player had the skill at 0% and the item was at 100% (undamaged), there is a 85% chance to shatter the gem.
If the player had the skill at 100% and the item was at 100% (undamaged), there is a 5% chance to shatter the gem.
If the player had the skill at 100% and an item is at 5%, there is a 95% chance of shattering the gem while extracting it from the item.

Gem recovery is out of the question for me. Once a gem is set into an equipment it stays there until the item breaks and the gem is lost. There are raw gems enough to cut new once.

Target a specific gem size: no good idea in my opinion either. There are lower level players that can cut gems at a lower size, so you can always ask them.

Gem trimming: As DT item skill and/or an npc shop (but you need to pay a high price for the trimming) seems great to me. Both the skill/shop are connected with a quest. (I can add the shop in the agancies area for instance, that way the agencies area might get a flow of regular visitors).

Exchanging 4 cut gems for 1 gem: Can indeed be considered in my opinion. You could use the shop where the gems can be trimmed for this purpose too.

I really like Kerrik 3rd or 4th idea. I think that the skill is definitely a fantastic idea, but it doesn't seem to be DT worthy. Maybe you could get the skill without paying a DT but you can get a "Laser Cutter" for a DT, which will cut it down to the exact size you want it (1 or 2 uses per DT).
I also really like the salvaging idea, except that it might be possible to make lots of money from it. Items in the clan store with gems are much too cheap, and if they are at 100%, then the player gets a gem which may be worth more than the item with the gem in it.

The only idea here I see as not being overpowered is the gem trimming as long as it's setup similarly to gem cutting except you get say a chance of cutting off between 1 - 15 points from the gem. Obviously the range for trimming would depend on gem size. There'd also be the chance to downgrade a gem from say a medium to a small gem if you trimmed too much. There should still be risk to cutting it.

I'm not entirely sure about the gem exchange, if it's 4 cut gems for a raw gem I think it's a good idea. If it was for a precise gem it'd be overpowered in my opinion.

Gem Salvaging seems to me too overpowered even with the restrictions I already proposed.

Gem Exchange would definitely have to be 4+ cut gems for 1 raw gem. Otherwise it could be too powerful.
(Perhaps the smaller the gems the more are required in trade?)

Gem Cutter (NPC) would have to charge based on the points in the gem and the costs would be very high.
(How expensive would a 50 point gem be if it was exactly cut to fit a specific piece of equipment?)

Gem Trimming should have a chance to cut off too much until you got your skill to 100%.
Even then we could make it still have a minimal range of a few points,
so the player risks not getting a precise cut even with perfect skill.

NO gem salvaging, I think we all agree on that ! (too overpowered)

Gem exchange: I like your idea Kerrik, about the smaller the gems, the more gems required for trading them in in exchange for a raw gem. We could make it like e.g.: 1 raw gem for 250 points of cut gems (meaning if you add all points of gems offered for exchange the sum = 250). (250 is just used as an example, we'll have to determine the amount)

Gem Cutter NPC :Seems a good idea (would be suitable for adding in the agency area). But I'm not sure about cutting to the exact size wanted. How about: player can select small/medium/large/king size cut of the gem and he will receive one cut within that range. As to the cost: should indeed be high, but we must avoid to make it more expensive of what players in chat ask. Or another possibility: make cut gems untransferrable between players and raise min. price for selling cut gems in your market, so that either you have to cut your own gems or you will have to come to this npc (possible gold sink ?).

Gem Cutting off skill: In my opinion should always be x - y points cut off from the gem with risk of breaking gem. I would make it a DT skill with a quest (similar to repair/recycle).


Anyhow, before implementing anything I would wait on Croesy's opinion too.

zonneschijn wrote

Gem Cutter NPC :Seems a good idea (would be suitable for adding in the agency area). But I'm not sure about cutting to the exact size wanted. How about: player can select small/medium/large/king size cut of the gem and he will receive one cut within that range. As to the cost: should indeed be high, but we must avoid to make it more expensive of what players in chat ask. Or another possibility: make cut gems untransferrable between players and raise min. price for selling cut gems in your market, so that either you have to cut your own gems or you will have to come to this npc (possible gold sink ?).

Then what is the point of the gem cutting skill?

That it will not cost you any gold to have a gem cut, if you cut it yourself.

At present a lot of players have their gem cut by other players because they either don't have the skill yet or they cannot cut the right size. Instead of going to/paying other players, they pay an npc for having their gem cut.

I think this spoils the effort some players put in their gem cutting skill, this idea replaces players by npcs. There is no problem currently, so why would we change it?

You misunderstand me. The Gem Cutter NPC does not cut raw gems. That would negate the gem cutting skill.
The Gem Cutter (NPC) trims magical gems by cutting off an amount the player asks for ... plus 0-3 points determined randomly.

OOO indeed, I misunderstood. I thought you could go with a raw gem to the npc and ask him to cut a gem for you. My mistake.

0 -3 points seems a bit too like a definite cut, I think the range should be higher. It should really depend on the gems size.

i like zonne's requirement of say 250 points = 1 raw gem, but the points would have to come after the mod has been removed since HP gems would be used to get them.

Option #3 Gem Trimming NPC
The player who cut the gem has already cut the gem with a random amount up to 20% less than max.
This is the fine trimming job that cuts off a little bit more so the gem fits in a specific slot.

There is a fee involved that get progressively more expensive per gem point as the size increases.
A low fee at the extreme small end of the scale encourages low level players to trim existing gems for use in system gear.

The extra small amount of gem that is cut off due to chance is currently 0-3 points, but can be tweaked later.

Additionally, there is a 1% chance to shatter an Extra Tiny gem. This increases as the gem size increases.
No refunds.
How quickly it increases depends on a constant that can be changed in the code.
This will act as a slow drain on unused magical gems sitting in inventories, markets, and chests.

Still 100% against it.

I still fail to see any real need for gem trimming. If only use it to make smaller gems that are in a range with wastage, that can easily be done already by just equipping less dex or intel gear. And most people want the largest gem possible, not a smaller gem

Agreed, there are btw plenty of other players that have a low gem cutting skill and can create smaller gems.